SHOPTALK: On my home desk this week is a nice pic of the Okagi Restaurant on the south side of Liberty Avenue that was probably captured during the “Roaring 20s”. You will note the folks on the sidewalk. They are probably waiting for the doors to the eatery to open.
I am going to stick my neck out here and posit the reason the photo was taken: In Okagi’s early years as a restaurateur in Vermilion his place was located on the north side of Liberty – perhaps where the current (2017) restaurant known as the “Old Prague” is located today.
It may be that this photo was taken after Okagi moved to the location seen in this picture. The street lamps were something he added along with the weight machine by the pole on the left. Some years thereafter he would have a beautiful black and white glass façade added to the building, and Editor Roscoe would take another photograph.
The “Goodrich Tires” business next (west) of the restaurant was initially J.A. Klaar’s Harness shop. When this pic was taken the world was in transition from literal to figurative horsepower.
Mr. Klaar was also involved in local politics (village, township and county). In fact, one morning (3 February 1936) after going to do some work at the township hall he was overcome by fumes from a defective heater and died.
Klaar’s daughter, Nellie, while married to a gentleman named La Verne Wood had three children; Paul, Mary and Dorothy. I don’t know if Mr. Wood died or what might have happened to him, but by 1930 she was married to a Vermilion guy named Presdee Morgan. Daughter Mary married Howard Bogart. And Dorothy married Albert “Jim” Hart.
On the shoptop this week is an icy pic of what is now (2017) the Vermilion History Museum. This snap was taken back in the 1960s when my big brother, Bill, and his family lived in the apartment over the print shop. Those ice sickles hanging on the gutters look dangerous.
GOD AND MODERN MEDICINE: Limping along I am sometimes inclined to wonder if I made the right decision to have my hip replaced. I really thought I’d be much better by now. Not running marathons, but moving away from pain and trying to get my leg muscles working correctly. Three weeks following surgery I am able to drive again. Nonetheless, I need slow down some. Pushing too hard, I find, is not a good idea.
However: when I think back to the way things were 100 years ago, I know that I made the right decision and that after more rehabilitation I’ll be OK. If it were 1917 I would likely be headed for life in a wheelchair accompanied by a great deal of pain. So I certainly understand that I made the correct decision. Thank God and modern medicine.
SUMMER COMES TO OOC: This is a Georgia O’Keefe view of the side of our home at the Olympic Club on the first day of summer. The steps toward the back are those we generally use as our main entrance. There is a ramp to the right that will allow for handicap access. It was built for Georgie’s mom who was in a wheelchair, but we’ve found it convenient for many other reasons. Our canoe leans against the front stairway waiting for some enterprising soul to make use of it. Geo’s also got a kayak. I’ve not been on the water for years.
Things at the club are beginning to come to life. The weather is good, the kids are out of school, happy and folks are ready to enjoy the summer. Let summer begin!
THE PROSPECTUS: Just another page from the old town Prospectus...
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY: Several years ago a lady named Brenda Baumhart Mezz allowed me to scan several scrapbooks of her family photographs. For persons unfamiliar with them, the Vermilion Baumhart family was, once upon a grand old time, one of the town’s most prominent families. One might note, however, that there were several sides to this family – one that settled in the Brownhelm area and spelled their name with a “d” – B-a-u-m-h-a-r-d-t – and Brenda’s more immediate ancestors who settled in Vermilion proper and who, in time, spelled the name sans the extra letter.
Augustus was the patriarch of the Vermilion family. He was born in Hessen-Kassel, Germany in 1834. Sometime during the mid-1850s Mr. Baumhart and his wife Margarett left Europe and settled in Vermilion where the couple operated a dairy farm. Together they had eight children – 5 boys and 3 girls – and life was apparently quite good to them. He died in August of 1894.
The Baumhart boys, Henry, Charles, Otto, George and Albert did quite well for themselves and their respective families. However, all but Albert died rather young. When the eldest son, Henry, was stricken by flu and died at the tender age of 59 in 1922 he was the Manager of the Cleveland Department of the Hartford Steam Boiler Inspection Insurance Company. Charles (“C.C”) was a most intelligent and enterprising person. As a very young man he owned and operated a drugstore business in Vermilion while simultaneously dabbling in local real estate. However, a congenital heart condition stole his life at age 44. The third oldest son, Otto, who was also interested in steam boilers, became an engineer on the Nickel Plate Railroad. But, again, also died relatively young (age 57) in 1926. Brother George never left the farm, was successful, and had an inherent passion for politics. He was a highly respected member of the Vermilion Village Council when he joined his older brothers in eternity in 1923. He was 51.
Albert, the remaining brother, who had been a rather sickly youth followed his brother “C.C” into the drugstore business and was, of course, very successful. He also became involved in the towns first telephone exchange; the first motion picture theatre (i.e. the Crystal Theatre); the first ticket agency for the Lake Shore Electric interurban railway and last but hardly least, operated an extremely successful ice cream manufacturing and sales business.
A.D. and his first wife, Effie Washburn, were the proud parents of two sons, A.D. Jr. and Charles. Toward the end of World War 1 Effie fell a victim to the great flue pandemic then overshadowing the world and died at 35 years of age. In 1921 Mr. Baumhart married a lady named Frances Bullock. Now the photograph:
More often than not it is quite hard to follow family relationships beyond our own, and following the Baumhart tree is no different. But perhaps the accompanying photo will help. Pictured at the back L-R are: Peter Hart, A.D. Baumhart and Emma Hart. In the front row L-R are: Frances Baumhart and Bertha Wood; Now, the relationships.
Peter Hart was the husband of Emma Baumhart who was one of A.D. Baumhart’s older sisters. Peter was a ship’s carpenter as well as a bridge carpenter for the railroad. Bertha Wood was the middle child of Peter and Emma Hart. Her older brother was named Albert Henry, and her younger sister was Alice.
Albert Henry Hart and his wife Emily (m.1915) had two children: Albert H. (aka Jim) and a daughter they named Jane. The elder Albert was a Vermilion pharmacist and opened and operated Vermilion’s iconic Hart’s Corner Drug Store (now Big Jim’s Soda Grill) in the very heart (no pun intended) of town. The younger Albert also became a pharmacist as well as becoming one of the town’s most highly respected businessmen and citizens.
Today the name Baumhart is not as well known as it once was, but the Hart name remains prominent. Peter Hart, son, grandson, and great-grandson etc. still makes Vermilion his home. And there are undoubtedly other members of these families about with names not so obvious that pass along the streets. So in this instance let me caution all: Be careful what you say about someone. You may be talking to her / his relative. It’s a small town.
Ref: Special Thanks to Brenda Baumhart Mezz; Published in the Vermilion Photojournal 06/15/2017.
YESTERYEAR'S NEWS: The following clips were orally transcribed from past issues of The Vermilion News. I think you will find them both interesting and fun...
Vol. XIII, No.2. - VERMILION, OHIO, THURSDAY, June 24, 1909
FISCHER – PRIEST
Tuesday morning at 10:30 o'clock in the private suite of rooms of Mr. and Mrs. Geo. Fischer, in Hotel Maudelton, their daughter, Miss Maud C. Fischer was united in married to Mr. Orland A. Priest of Loudonville, O. Only the immediate relatives were present. The wedding ceremony was performed by Rev. A. G. Lohmann of the Reformed church, the party standing beneath a beautiful floral arch. The rooms were handsomely decorated for the occasion.
The bride was becomingly gowned in a light gray traveling costume the groom wearing the conventional black.
After dinner the happy couple left for a trip to Lake Chautauqua and other points of interest and expect to be at home to their many friends at Loudonville O., after Oct. 1.
Mr. Priest is a prominent businessman of Loudonville.
The little romance which culminated in the taking from the home of Mr. and Mrs. George Fischer of their beautiful and accomplished daughter, to a home of her own in another town was the result of an acquaintance sprung up between the young people while at Oberlin, Miss Fisher at the Conservatory and Mr. Priest the college. Among the presents given, the bride received two $20 gold pieces from the groom. Mrs. Priest, the groom's mother remembered them also with a substantial check.
Their many friends join in congratulations.
The engagement of Miss Mary Louise Hamlen to Mr. Mark L. Thompson has been announced the wedding to take place June 29. Ms. Hamlen is the niece of Mrs. F. L. Chamberlain of E. 40th St., Cleveland Ohio – Plain Dealer
Miss Hamlen is the daughter of Rev. Hamlen a former pastor of the Congregational church here.
MARSHALL BALDWIN RESIGNS
On account of a misunderstanding with the mayor Tuesday, Marshal Baldwin handed in his resignation.
Don't forget that the weeds down in your dooryard or on that vacant lot. It is not very encouraging to fix up one's premises have an eyesore next-door.
Tuesday the Supreme Court at Columbus on authority of decision in the case of Fairview vs Griffin as recorded in volume 73, the Ohio State reports page number 183, decided the case of the village of Vermilion vs Charles J. Martin et al in favor of the latter affirming the judgment of the lower courts.
Martin and his associates, as plaintiffs in the original case sued for an order of the court, detaching certain lands lying within the boundaries of the village of Vermilion as incorporated. They asked to have these lands made a part of Vermilion Township whereupon the village in order to save the taxes which, lessened somewhat the detachment order would throw into the township treasury instead of the village treasury, carried the case to the circuit court. Here the judgment of the Common Pleas Court was affirmed just as it was by the Supreme Court.
Several of Martin Rees sheep have been injured lately by dogs.
James Nichol’s health is reported much improved.
The little baby of Mr. and Mrs. Frank Sheffler was christened Sunday morning.
Harold Brown popular catcher for the Grays had his finger injured badly Sunday afternoon.
William Kuss who underwent an operation at the Memorial Hospital Elyria is recovering rapidly.
The remains of Mrs. Emily C. Heath of Cleveland was brought here for burial Friday. Interment was made at the Cleveland street cemetery.
The funeral of Mrs. Phillips Sipple was held Monday, at 1 PM at the family residence, on North Church street. Rev. Lindenmeyer preached the funeral services and the interment was in the Cleveland street cemetery.
A daughter was born to Mr. and Mrs. Adolph Nikel June 13th.
Mr. Luenna Hull entertained the Swastika club Wednesday.
Capt. and Mrs. A. H. Pearl attended the state G. A. R. encampment at Newark last week.
Ira H. Judson received his licenses as embalmer. He took the examination at Cincinnati recently.
THE REASON WHY
We have been asked by number of subscribers why the notes of some of the churches are no longer published in the NEWS. It's been intimated or given out by a certain minister that we did not have room. This is not so. We have room and can make more room if necessary.
Now for the real facts:
Ever since a new church has been organized in Vermilion there has been more or less friction and the Editor of the NEWS has come in for a share of the blame, just because he extended the same courtesy to the new church as to the old. We received several calls from gentlemen of the ministerial Association concerning the publication of these church items. It was threatened that the church notes would be withdrawn unless we limited the church notes to a very small space. This after due consideration we refuse to do especially as it was aimed principally at this "new" church. Hence the notes have not appeared. We believe in fair play and would not refused publication of any church matter received in time, unless it was a personal attack upon any particular religious organization.
There is room and always will be room for the notes for all churches as long as the NEWS is under its present management.
We do not care whether the items are brought in by the minister or layman, they will be published. The news of the churches and of the various societies will never be barred from the columns of this paper.
Geo. C. West former proprietor of Sandusky West House who was committed to the Toledo Asylum a few weeks ago returned to Sandusky Friday.
Rev. Ross F. Wicks has been recalled to the pastorate Norwalk Cong’l church.
W. F. Washburn is reported quite ill at his home liberty Street.
Quite a number of Vermilionites took in the circus at Lorain Tuesday.
The Vermilion Telephone Company is preparing to issue a new directory.
Good catches of fish are officially reported by the local fish companies.
Capt. Henry Leidheiser is again out after a severe illness.
Several large crowds have picnicked at the parks this week.
Presdee Morgan spent Sunday with Rev. G. E. Merrill family at Burton.
Ed Bachmann and Rob Kane left this week for a trip on the lakes.
The band concert Wednesday evening in the park was well attended. Sure to be on hand again next Wednesday.
Strickline Dog Circus was at the Crystal Theatre Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings last week. The dogs were certainly well-trained and it was one of the best entertainments of the kind ever given in Vermilion. The pictures were also fine.
During the severe electrical storm which passed over this section yesterday the grocery store of F. N. Pelton was struck by lightning. No serious damage was done. Mr. Pelton was severely shocked.
Our suggestion in regarding a union S S picnic last [sic] the islands has been favorably commented upon by one superintendent. We would like to hear from others either for or against.
Ed Lawrence had the misfortune to dislocate the bones of his left hand while at his work on the Nickel Plate yesterday. He arrived home this morning and will probably be laid up for several days.
AT THE MAUDELTON
The twenty-five jolly college girls who have been spending the week of the Maud Elton have returned to their homes.
The Lorain Press Association will banquet at the Maud Elton Saturday evening. Thirty are expected.
Reservations have already been taken at the hotel for twenty autoists from Cleveland who will spend Sunday in Vermilion.
Mrs. William Heinrich and son returned to their homes at Cleveland after spending three weeks at the hotel. Mr. Heinrich is manager of Liberty and Brooklyn branches of the Cleveland Trust company.
Mr. Ferrill [sic] had a lively barn raising Thursday morning as they succeeded in setting it up by 9:30 AM, after which the rain came down in torrents and gave all a nice chance to partake to fine lunch served.
Carpenters to put up the L. W. Champney house arrived Wednesday morning.
William Miller believes in solid comfort as he has invested in a fine chair swing.
Mr. Lovegood and Zimmerman Axtel’s cheese makers spent some time at Crystal Beach Sunday.
Jersey justice has a rival in Ohio, where a man is to have a leg amputated in order to save his life, so that he may be electrocuted for killing his sweetheart.
The new mill firm are as busy with two young and ambitious men can be getting ready to build. Mill machinery is already selected.
Mr. Roy Fleming died very suddenly in his home Saturday was brought to this place for burial last Sunday.
Mrs. Harrison who has been sick for some time is no better.
Geo. Page purchased himself a horse of Jesse Smith.
The farmers think the hay makers is now coming to assist them in the hayfield.
[NOTE: I’m certainly no farmer, so I’ve no clue as to what this means.]
IN THE MAIL: On Wednesday I received the following communiqué and thought it might interest a few readers:
"Good morning! I was just doing a google search on the Toledo Fish Co. and your page happened to come up with a very interesting photo of the Toledo Fish Co. tug. As it happens, I am doing some research for my uncle, who is helping restore a home near mine in Toledo's historic Old West End neighborhood. In a fascinating discovery, he noticed some of the stair treads sounded odd, opened up a few, and found dozens of cubbies filled with unopened bottles of prohibition-era bourbon, whiskey, and gin! Opening a basement wall, he found more bottles.
I did some research and found the home was built in 1919 by the owner of Toledo Fish Co. and he died in 1926 at age 42. It's obvious to me he was running liquor in that same tug you have in your photo. "
If possible, I would love to obtain a photo or scan of that tug and any other items pertaining to the Toledo Fish Co. Would you be able to provide that, or could you possibly point me toward Bill Cutcher? Thanks in advance and thanks for posting it!
I did pass this note on to Bill. He would know more about such things than myself. I hope they took some pix of the stash. Perhaps we’ll hear more about this in the future.
OF SOME INTEREST: I hope some of these scraps provide bits of info long forgotten by many.
VHS CLASS 1967: From Trudy Tischer Archer: The reunion of the Class of 1967 will be at Vermilion Boat Club on August 12. They are searching for classmates far and wide. Susan Backus is heading this up. Ellen Koachway O'Hara, Peter Hart and Marie Agen are assisting. They also have a Facebook page: Class of 1967
Trudy can be contacted at: email@example.com
DETECTING VERMILION’S CHURCH OF CHRIST: Sadly, neither of the photographs accompanying the Yesteryear column this week is of good quality. Although taken several years apart they are almost identical in their dream-like appearance. (One could also call their appearance “out-of-focus”.) But, no matter, there is enough in them to help with identification.
The upper photo is one I’ve been puzzling over for years. It is from my grandfather’s, Roscoe’s, collection. With the assistance of a computer and / or a magnifying glass it is possible to read the sign above the door on the building. It says “Church of Christ”. Consequently, that part of discovery was never a big problem. The larger difficulty was trying to place the church in Vermilion – where was it located?
The roofline of house on the right in the upper photo seemed familiar, and brought to mind several in town. One is located near the old Nickel Plate rails on State Street. The other is across from Vermilion’s Municipal Court on Decatur Street. However, neither of those structures has anything similar to the church next door. Moreover, I thought it very possible that neither of the buildings still existed. [e.g. who will be able to remember where Fulper’s Auto Parts / Service Station was located in 2112?] Considering that possibility I set my puzzling aside confident that someday someone or something would lead me to discovering the site of the church.
Last Saturday morning (04/21/12) my patience paid off when I received several digital communiqués from John Copeland who currently resides in the South. John’s father is Vermilionite Rick Copeland. (Several weeks back Rick told me that while visiting his son he might have him forward some old Vermilion pictures to me.) Ergo, the photographs.
In all, there are sixteen scanned documents. Eleven are photographs, and five are scans of the notations on the backs of some of the photos identifying them. On the back of the one with the church (the bottom photo in the accompanying illustration) was this note: “Church of Christ on South Main St., Vermilion, O., about 1910.” And so did I respond with in my best detective voice, “Aha!” – finally a clue. But, all kidding aside, I was both elated and surprised, for I’d never have guessed the site of the church in a million years.
Initially, I wondered (momentarily) about the church being located on “South” Main Street. This is because there was no “South Main Street” when these pictures were taken c. 1910. The street from Liberty to South Street was known as Division Street until 1963. This meant that the notes must have been added sometime after 1963. But either way it is now possible to identify the site.
This building, or a reasonable facsimile of it, still exists. It is now the site of a duplex on the west side of Main Street between Ohio and South Streets. It appears to be the same structure with some modifications: A front porch, dormer, and basement having been added. Both neighboring homes have also been altered over the years but, by and large, they look much the same today as they did a hundred years ago. Now, the only thing left to do is to find out what happened to the congregation of folks who worshipped there. Who knows (?) maybe in another ten years…
Published in the Vermilion Photojournal 04/26/2012.
HISTORY OF ERIE COUNTY
…furnished detachments for service elsewhere, including a short and very active campaign in pursuit of rebel troops in West Virginia, in 1862.
"The One Hundred and Twenty-eighth having been chiefly occupied at the frontier posts of Johnson's Island and Sandusky, its service necessarily involves much of the military history of these posts, and/can better be understood by giving a brief synopsis of that history.
"Early in 1862 Johnson's Island became a depot exclusively for rebel officers who were held as prisoners of war.
"The records of the post show the strength of the prisoners in 1862 as follows: Average for April, 444; for May, 1,074; average for June, 1,105; July 31, 1,149; August 31, 1,452; exchanged September 1, 1,123; average for September, 595; aggregate October 31, 893; aggregate November 30, 295; aggregate December 31, 209.
"It should be remembered that a cartel for a general exchange of prisoners of war had long been expected, and was finally agreed upon July 22, 1862. Under that cartel and special arrangement exchanges went on until July, 1863, and a continuance was expected. This expectation, with the belief of general loyalty in the north, and the want of help in Canada, had their legitimate influence on the prisoners, and undoubtedly prevented efforts at outbreak and resistance until late in the fall of 1863.
"The number of prisoners of war at the depot during 1863 will be sufficiently understood from the following: January 31, 30S; February 28, 347; March 31, 105; April 20, 59; May 31, 40; June 30, 806; July 31, 1668; August 31, 1,817; September 30, 2,155 ; October 31, 2,156; November 30, 2,381; December 31, 2,623.
"In the spring and summer of 1862 the garrison on the island was strengthened by one company of the Sixty-first Ohio, relieved by one company of the Eighty-eighth, The stoppage of exchanges, followed by the assembling of considerable forces from the rebel army and navy in Canada, and the machinations of disloyal organizations in Ohio, Indiana and elsewhere known to intend to rescue these prisoners with attendant devastations on the lake towns and commerce, showed these posts to be unsafe without considerable reinforcements. Six companies of the Twelfth Ohio Cavalry (dismounted), with the Twenty-fourth Battery (six guns), and two detachments of the First Ohio Heavy Artillery (with seven heavy guns) were sent to the island early in November, 1863, followed promptly by the Forty-ninth and Fiftieth Regiments of the National Guard and a Pennsylvania Battery. The Forty-ninth and Fiftieth remained only eight or ten days, and the Pennsylvania Battery was soon relieved. The other troops remained all winter.
"The First Brigade, Third Division, Sixth Corps, including five regiments, attended by two brigadier-generals from the Army of the Potomac, reached Sandusky on the 13th of January, 1864. Four of the regiments, with General…
VERMILION ARTIFACT #258
ERIE COUNTY UNITED BANK: Niece Barb Akers donated this 1954 Erie County Bank Calendar to the museum during the week along with a number of Jr. High School annual books from the 1980s. Barb’s mom, Lois Stockman-Tarrant, was one of the cooks in the cafeteria of the school during those years.
I like the calendar because I like old prints. In addition, this calendar has monthly recipes with a good deal of information about foods.
I don’t remember when the Erie County Bank was absorbed by a corporate entity. (I wasn’t really paying attention.) But eventually (now) it is known as Key Bank and it’s located in a big brick building just east of Nokomis Park across from the South Shore Shopping Center. And the old bank – the one advertised by this artifact – now houses Vermilion City offices.
1954 is one of my favorite years. In the Fall of each year the auto companies always introduced their new models for the following year. So, 1954 was the first year I got to fall in love with a 1955 Ford Thunderbird and the Crown Victoria.
And the world was one swell place.
The shipwrecked mariner had spent several years on a deserted island. Then one morning he was thrilled to see a ship offshore and a smaller vessel pulling out toward him.
When the boat grounded on the beach, the officer in charge handed the marooned sailor a bundle of newspapers and told him, "The captain said to read through these and let us know if you still want to be rescued
LOCAL ANNOUNCEMENTS: After giving it much thought this link has been "put-down". During the last year most of the folks who used to use this page as a bulletin board have acquired their own and, consequently, no longer need this forum from "Views". I have, however, kept links (in the links section) to Larry Hohler's "Hope Homes" in Kenya - and to Bette Lou Higgins' Eden Valley Enterprises sites. They are historically and socially relevant projects. I suggest that you visit these sites on a regular basis to see "what's shakin'".
Pay particular note to the "Hope Homes" page during the next few months / years. They are constantly improving the lives of their youngsters and those around them. This is an exciting project accomplished by exciting people.
Although this Vermilion High School Class of 1959 reunion is over classmates may want to stay connected with each other through organizerROGER BOUGHTON. Ye can connect by mailing him @ 2205 SW 10th Ave. Austin, MN. 55912 or you can just emailRoger.
Persons interested in the history of the Lake Shore Electric Railway (which was the subject of a recent past podcast series) - "the greatest electaric railway system on the planet" may want to go to Amazon.com and purchase a book called "Images of Rail - Lake Shore Electric Railway". It was put together by Thomas J. Patton with the help of my friends DENNIS LAMONT and ALBERT DOANE. It'd make a nice gift.
Another great book with Vermilion Roots is, "Grandma's Favorites: A Compilation of Recipes from MARGARET SANDERS BUELL by Amy O'Neal, ELIZABETH THOMPSON and MEG WALTER (May 2, 2012). This book very literally will provide one with the flavor of old Vermilion. And ye can also find it at Amazon.com. Take a look.
MARY WAKEFIELD BUXTON'S LATEST BOOK "The Private War of William Styron" is available in paper back for $15.00 with tax and can be purchased locally at Buxton and Buxton Law Office in Urbanna, ordered from any book store, Amazon.com or Brandylane Publishing Company. A signed, hard back edition may be purchased from Mrs. Buxton directly for $30.00 by writing her at Box 488, Urbanna, VA 23175 and including $6.00 for tax, postage and packaging.
THE BEAT GOES ON: This page is generated by a dreaded Macintosh Computer and is written and designed by (me) Rich Tarrant. It will change weekly ~ usually on Saturday. Bookmark the URL (Universal Resource Locater) and come back at your own leisure. Send the page to your friends (and enemies if you wish). If you have something to share with those who visit this page, pass it on. And if you see something that
is in need of correction do the same. My sister, Nancy, is a great help in that respect. It only takes me a week to get things right. And follow the links. You might find something you like. If you experience a problem with them let me know. Also, if you want to see past editions of this eZine check the new archives links below.
If you're looking for my old links section (pictured) I've replaced it with a pull-down menu (visible in the small box next to the word "Go"). If you're looking for links to more Vermilion history check that menu.
How the old links menu looked
For Persons who would like to donate to the cause (to keep these "Views" on-line you can send whatever you would like to me at the following address. And THANKS to everybody who has already donated to the cause. I doth certainly appreciate it):